Killing your darlings...

Hey everyone,

I just want to quickly explain our approach in these early game design phases. Someone rightly noted that we should not overextend ourselves, that we should not aim to do everything. I completely agree. As far as I am concerned the approach to defining the scope of the game consists of three fundamental steps.

Firstly, determine the kind of game you want to develop. We already know what we want here, as it will be the same kind of game in the same setting as the orignal Call of Combat. So basically we will be developing a multiplayer game centred around squad-based infantry combat during the Second World War.

Secondly, we identify all possible game elements that a relevant to the core game. So when you think of infantry combat in a WW2 setting, what comes to mind? Obviously we can build on what we had in Call of Combat in this step. But we also want to broaden our horizons here, go beyond what we already had. Identifying the terrain and map elements as Erik was talking about is a part of that. The image at the bottom of this post is another such example of brainstorming on what could be added as it details some of the game components. Keep in mind it is just an early draft, but you can see there are many things on there that are new and were not in the previous game.

But the third step is actually most important. Thinking of new game elements is easy, what matters most is choosing what to implement! As Martin (our game designer) made very clear, you need to be able to 'kill your darlings'. You need to be able to scrap ideas if:

  1. They do not make the game more fun to play. Simply making the game more complex will not mean it will be more enjoyable to play!
  2. They are too hard to implement or balance properly. You could have a brilliant idea, but if it takes a year to implement and test it might not be worth it!

As part of this step we will need to decide whether we want to completely scrap an idea or simply plan it for release at a later stage. These are the steps we are going through now. So we are coming up with ideas and we really want to hear yours as well, but rest assured, we will at a later stage be scrapping them if we don't believe they add to the game or are simply too difficult to implement! In the end what matters is the core game play and not all the bells and whistles!




BlaZeD's picture

We cant forget about crawling! Everything else looks great, I personally dont want a game that is too complicated, morale aand fatigue will just piss me off. Keep it simple, sometimes less is more.
Florian's picture

I tend to agree. Morale and fatigue are exactly the kind of feature where we need to think deeply whether we really want to have it implemented. Sure, it is an essential part of combat, but does that also mean it would be a more interesting game? It certainly limits your options and adds something extra to think about, as you will always have to consider: "will my soldiers manage this without panicking or getting exhausted".

We will have to see! Luckily it is also the kind of feature that can quite easily be integrated at a later stage.
Mogad's picture

I'am new at COC, and i can't find the download link? Is it available now? Can someone help me?
Delta2k17's picture

CoC v2 is not out yet but the old version of CoC can be played here
Mogad's picture

Thank you Delta2k17 :)
M1_Abrams's picture

Can someone send an alert when the game is up? If yes send it to the emails.

M1_Abrams, Sergent_Shar
Erik's picture

Hey M1. You've registered so we have your e-mail address. We will definetely e-mail you once the game is ready to be played :)
Castiel's picture

Looks like a lot of things are going on. Nice job guys. Damn good job!! Good luck!!
Dan's picture

if your looking at a team mate maybe you can get the soldiers your looking ats eyes as if hes tlling you what he can see. think about how I mean this as its difficult to explain. would improve team work.
Erik's picture

Hey Dan,

I think i know what you mean. What you're actually saying is that soldiers should be able to communicate with each other somehow (correct me if im wrong). The question is.. Should there be communication between soldiers or between players. Or both... :)

I keep looking at the graphic and I have to wonder, "What is the squad?". I know what it was in V1. It was me and 3 other soldiers. I just didn't know which one I was until the end. Now with the significant amount of more equipment and options to the soldiers, I see that balance easily teeter. That may not be bad at all but I still see only two slopes.

1. Player would be acting as team leader and the squad would have some (if crude) ai to assist them.
ex. full spectrum warrior ten hammers, Brothers in arms (Road to hill 30)
In this input I would totally agree with complexities such as moral and fatigue. Additionally extra squad equipment could be doled out. Instead of mp40 and nades, Assault pack! Instead of Bar and ammo, Support pack! The CO could give the package to players so they are assigned a 'battlefield duty'. This could deepen simulation and teamwork.

2. All soldiers would be the player. Everything done manually and timing becomes VERY important.
ex. Chain, Rainbow Six (series)
With this input I would vote against complexity that slows you down such as moral or fatigue. I do think that this has a large opportunity to refine a players squad. Instead of hoping your CO doesn't hog the guns, let the players alter their squad between battles. Maybe I like to snipe but you want an MP40 on every man. As players rank up more options are available. Teamwork my be less of a priority for players but everyone will get to play their way.

I have been playing since Chain of Command was featured on 2am GameClub. I, to be honest, fear the swamp of complexity already presented by V2, but that is all we have really heard of. I don't think any of us really care what color or shape anything in the game is, even if it was all boxes and rectangles. I want to hear about what kind of game mechanics will change, what engine you are going to use, will the game still be done on a grid?

I will sum up with this. I have been playing this game since the 90s. If there ever was a game that I would pay money for, it is legacy that Chain left. Please at least start a Kickstarter page.
Erik's picture

Hi Odin,

Thanks for your input; very interesting. As with most of the suggestions I'll make sure they will be discussed during one of our conceptualization meetings. Currently we have identified the following gameplay elements as being the most important for CoCv2: tactics, competition and teamplay. At the moment we feel that these are the elements that make CoC such a great game. And these are the core elements which we will be building on.

We intend to post a status report tomorrow by the latest to inform you guys about what we are currently working on.


SoulEater's picture

Hey guys, some of you may remember me as that raging 14 year old kid, others might know me as a grown adult. but its needless to say i was very active on CoC 1.0.

I'm now a Java/C/Haskell/ASPX+C# Programmer, I'm offering my skills to Kading (Florian) for free. While I've never been part of a large scale development I'm sure my skills can be put to good use. Everything I offer is completely free of charge.

Its been a long time since I've been in touch but its great to hear that kading is re-programming the game!

Erik's picture

Hiya Soul,

Thanks for your offer to help. In the future we will be looking to expand the team. However, for various reasons we will first be looking at options nearer to our own geographical location (being Amsterdam). And if I remember correctly you are not stationed in The Netherlands right?



SoulEater's picture

While this is correct and I fully understand where your coming from, your correct in thinking I'm not in the Netherlands at the moment (I reside in England)

While the geographical location is a barrier it is not an insurmountable problem, should you require my services they will be available to you whenever. :)
Delta2k17's picture

Too many big words, pleas translate
Locust's picture

It looks like you've taken a page from Total War with a few things but I'm not complaining, it's a system that works well. But questions are as is follows:
1: Aren't kneeling and crouching one in the same/where is crawling?
2: does a soldiers morale get lowered if a member in his squad dies?/ does a soldiers morale get lowered for the remainder of the game if his team is slaughtered(inclusive of other players)?
3: are the abilities player chosen, if so, are players on the opposition meant to adapt and overcome the problem of facing an entire team that has chosen the Marksmanship perk?
4: does morale and fatigue play part in nading range and accuracy?
5a: if a player has taken the Physical Strength perk, is there going to be a feature for close quarters combat?
5b: if a player with Physical Strength nades, can he throw further than his fellows?
6: does mental strength/morale level play a part in fixing a jammed weapon?
7: and finally, will squad weapon dynamics differ greatly? Example: will there be M1 Carbines and Gweher43 rifles instead of( better termed as: optional over) the Kar98k and M1 Garand?

[edit] Oh, I forgot to ask this: regarding what Dan said about communications between soldiers of different players, if you keep the function that lower ranks cannot see what CO's do, what if you were to introduce radio packs, in place of weapons/support/assault packs? it could further help introduce artillery bombardments into the game, though if relayed to the fire-base via overextended lines of communication, it becomes more so inaccurate and therefore less deadly to the enemy, but more so over to the ones who called it in, (it's called Danger Close for a reason right?). Also in that, if it were to work similarly to that, could stress play a part in the accuracy of the bombardment? I doubt a stressed soldier will give the exact/best/greatest kind of details required to a radio operator. Though it may be extremely difficult to bring it into effect, I can imagine many games would be ruined if there were no timer till it was available for use, as whoever has the radio could rush to a position where it can be called upon on the enemies Deployment.
Erik's picture

Hey Locust,

Thanks for your input. Unfortunately I am unable to answer your questions at the moment. These issues are still under debate. However, your input is extremely welcome, more food for thought :)
supremo333's picture

cuando va a salir CoC V2?